I don't think I can do this.
I want to stand by my husband.
I really do, Jeffrey, but...
I don't think I can do this anymore.
I am so sorry.
Can we talk about this when I get back?
Yes, Jeffrey.
It's okay.
Jeff!
You've been served.
Now, what this one is is a temporary restraining order,
a gag order, issued by a Kentucky court.
Jeff Wigand, Michael Moore.
Good to meet you, Dr. Wigand.
Mike's our attorney general down here.
I was just explaining to Jeff they got a Kentucky court...
to issue a gag order to stop his deposition today.
- Right. - Now,
they tried to get the Mississippi court to honor it,
but the judge threw it out.
However, for you, there is a more perilous effect of the gag order.
Dr. Wigand, you do understand what can happen, don't you?
I'm not free to testify... here.
That's right. If you violate the Kentucky order,
when you step foot back in Kentucky...
they can find you in contempt and they can incarcerate you.
And you ought to know that.
- Jail. - Possibly, yes.
That is one of the possible consequences of your testifying here today.
That's right.
How does-- How does one go to jail?
Wh-What does my family do?
Go on welfare?
If my wife has to work, who's gonna look after the kids?
Put food on the table? I mean, my children need me.
If l'm not teaching, there's no medical.
No medical, even on co-pay, that's like-- Tuition--
Dr. Wigand, listen.
You may not be able to do this thing.
As I understand from Dick, you're our key witness,
and I hope you don't withdraw.
Um, I guess we'd all understand if you did.
Guys, I gotta go. I'm gonna be late for court.
I'll see y'all later. Dr. Wigand, good luck.
I know what you're facing, Jeff.
And I think I know how you're feeling.
In the navy, I flew A-6's off carriers.
In combat, events have a duration of seconds.
Sometimes minutes.
But what you're going through goes on day in, day out,
whether you're ready for it or not.
Week in, week out.
Month after month after month.
Whether you're up or whether you're down.
You're assaulted psychologically.
You're assaulted financially,
which is its own special kind of violence because it's directed at your kids.
What school can you afford?
How will that affect their lives?
You're asking yourself,
Will that limit what they may become?
You feel your whole family's future is compromised,
held hostage.
I do know how it is.
You attract a crowd.
Yeah. Great.
I heard about the Kentucky gag order.
I don't know what to do.
Hold on a second.
Would you please ask Mr. Motley if he expects his witness to appear or not?
I can't seem to find the criteria to decide.
It's too big a decision to make without being resolved in my own mind.
Maybe things have changed.
A lot's changed.
You mean since this morning?
No, I mean since whenever.
Fuck it.
Let's go to court.
Dr. Wigand would like to leave now.
Okay, Jeff. I'm gonna sit you down at that table over there.
I want to start as fast as possible.
I don't want to give them a chance to get another restraining order. Okay?
- Let's go. - Good luck, Doc.
Please stand. Raise your right hand.
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
- l do. - You may be seated.
You understand, Dr. Wigand, you are under oath?
This is a sworn deposition. There's no judge. It's not a trial.
Will you state your name for the record?
Jeffrey S. Wigand. R-E-Y. W-l-G-A-N-D.
Got any idea what's going on in there?
No, I don't have a clue.
- That is correct. - In other words, it acts as a drug,
- Object to the form of the question. - It acts as a drug--
- Object to the form-- - It acts as a drug--
- Object! - Is there an echo in here?
Your objection's been recorded.
She typed it into her little machine ower there. It's on there cord.
So now l'll proceed with my deposition of my witness.
- Does it act as a drug? - Dr. Wigand!
I am instructing you...
not to answer that question.
In accordance to the terms of the contractual obligations...
under taken by you...
not to disclose any information...
about your work at the Brown & Williamson Tobacco Company.
And in accordance with the force and effect...
of the temporary restraining order...
that has been entered against you...
by the court in the state of Kentucky.
That means you don't talk.
Mr. Motley, we have rights here.
Oh, you've got rights.
And lefts. Ups and downs and middles.
So what? You don't get to instruct anything around here!
This is not North Carolina, not South Carolina, nor Kentucky.
This is the sovereign state of Mississippi's proceeding.
Wipe that smirk off your face!
Dr. Wigand's deposition will be part of this record!
And I'm gonna take my witness' testimony whether the hell you like it or not!
Answer the question, Doctor.
Yes. It produces a physiological response, which meets the definition of a drug.
Um, nicotine is associated with...
impact, satisfaction.
It has a pharmacological effect that crosses the blood-brain barrier intact.
Thank you, Doctor. Thank you.
One of the reasons I'm here is that I felt...
that their representation clearly--
Run that Sandefur piece on "nicotine's not addictive."
Run that on camera, then cut right to Wigand with "l believe they perjured--"
Then go wide to the C.E.O.s all taking the oath.
Then back on Jeff...
and play the pause after the word "felt" on the B-side.
Hell of a show, Mike. Explosive material.
- It went great in Mississippi, Mike. - Good.
-I heard Wigand's deposition got sealed. -Yeah.
They argued that he was going to reveal the secret formula of Kools to the world.
Sealed doesn't hurt Scruggs' litigation,
and since we're the only ones with the story, l believe we're sitting on an exclusive.
- I like that. - Corporate has some questions.
We've got a meeting at "Black Rock " first thing in the morning.
- When's the air date? - Lowell, Sharon's online three.
- Tell her I'll call her back in ten. - Here we go.
That they had long known that the nicotine in tobacco...
is an addictive drug despite their public statements to the contrary.
Like the testimony before Congress of Dr. Wigand's former boss,
Brown & Williamson's chief executive officer, Thomas Sandefur.
I believe that nicotine is not addictive.
I believe Mr. Sandefur perjured himself...
because I watched those testimonies very carefully.
All of us did. There was this whole line of people,
whole line of C.E.O.'s up there all swearing.
Part of the reason I'm here is that I felt...
that their representation clearly misstated...
what is common language within the company.
We are in the nicotine delivery business.
There is extensive use of this technology, known as ammonia chemistry.
It allows for the nicotine to be more rapidly absorbed in the lung...
and therefore affect the brain and central nervous system.
- That's what cigarettes are for. - Delivery device for nicotine.
A delivery device for nicotine. Put it in your mouth,
Iight it up and you're going to get your fix.
You're going to get your fix.
- Shall I send for coffee? Sorry I'm late. - No, we're fine.
- Are you sure? - Yeah.
All right. I thought we'd get together...
because there's a legal concept...
that has been getting some new attention recently.
Tortious interference.
If two people have an agreement, like a confidentiality agreement,
and one of them breaks it because they are induced to do so by a third party,
the third party can be sued for damages for interfering.
Hence, tortious interference.
lnterfering? That's what we do.
I think what we're trying to tell you is that it happens all the time.
This is a news organization. People are always telling us things they shouldn't.
We have to verify if it's true and in the public interest. And if it is, we air it.
And after we corroborate it. That's why we've never lost a lawsuit and run a classy show.
- Anything else? - And 60 Minutes' verification is exact and precise.
And I don't think it would hurt to make sure you're right on this one.
Why? You think we have liability?
What's the CBS News position, Eric?
There's a possibility. It's rather remote.
But one we have to check on, Mike.
I've retained outside counsel to do exactly that...
on a segment, I might add, that's already rife with problems.
What does that mean? " Rife with--"
I'm told unusual promises were made to Wigand.
No, only that we would hold his story until it was safe for him.
And I'm told there are questions as to our star witness' veracity.
His "veracity" was good enough for the state of Mississippi.
Our standards have to be higher than anyone else's,
because we are the standard for everybody else.
Well, as a "standard," I'll hang with "is this guy telling the truth?"
Well, with tortious interference, I'm afraid...
the greater the truth, the greater the damage.
- Come again? - They own...
the information he's disclosing.
The truer it is,
the greater the damage to them.
If he lied, he didn't disclose their information, and the damages are smaller.
- Is this Alice in Wonderland? - You said "on this one."
What about this one?
If this holds up-- And it very well may not, Mike.
But if it did and we aired this segment,
and CBS was sued by Brown & Williamson,
I think we could be at grave risk.
- How grave? - Well, at the end of the day,
because of your segment,
the Brown & Williamson Tobacco Company...
could own CBS.
Oh. You know,
I am sorry, but I'm due upstairs.
Is CBS Corporate telling CBS News...
Do not go to air with this story?
You're getting ahead of yourself. We're all in this together.
We're all CBS. We'll find out soon.
Thank you, gentlemen.
Tortious interference.
That sounds like a disease caught by a radio.
- Lunch? - Sure.
Don't worry. We call the shots around here.
Hello?
Debbie, it's me. I want you to check some filings,
and give me John Wilson's number at Bear-Stearn.
- What now? - Kluster's coming over.
Hello, Lowell, Mike.
Don.
There has been so much soul searching about this Wigand.
I've decided we should cut an alternate version of the show without his interview.
So what happened to Ms. Caperelli's checking with outside counsel first?
- All that crap? - That's happening.
Hopefully, we won't have to use the alternate, but we should have it in the can.
- I'm not touching my film. - I'm afraid you are.
- No, I'm not. - We're doing this with or with out you, Lowell.
If you like, I can assign another producer to edit your show.
Since when has the, uh,
paragon of investigative journalism...
allowed lawyers to determine the news content on 60 Minutes?
It's an alternate version.
So what if we have an alternate version?
And I don't think our being cautious is so damned unreasonable.
So now, if you will excuse me, gentlemen,
Mr. Rather's been complaining about his chair again.
Before you go,
I discovered this.
S.E.C. filing for the sale of CBS Corporation to Westinghouse Corporation.
- What? - Yeah, I heard rumors.
It's not a rumor. It's a sale. If Tisch can unload CBS...
for $81 a share to Westinghouse,
and then is suddenly threatened...
with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit from Brown & Williamson,
that could screw up the sale, could it not?
- What are you implying? - I'm not implying. I'm quoting.
Uh, "More vested interests. Persons who will profit from this merger.
Ms. Helen Caperelli, general counsel of CBS News, 3.9 million.
Mr. Eric Kluster, president of CBS News,
1.4 million."
Are you suggesting that she and Eric are influenced by money?
No, no, of course they're not influenced by money. They work for free.
And you are a volunteer executive producer.
CBS does not do that. And you're questioning our journalistic integrity.
No, I'm questioning your hearing.
You hear "reasonable" and "tortious interference."
I hear "potential Brown & Williamson lawsuit...
jeopardizing the sale of CBS to Westinghouse."
I hear "Shut the segment down. Cut Wigand loose.
Obey orders and fuck off." That's what I hear.
- You're exaggerating. - I am?
You pay me to go get guys like Wigand,
to draw him out, to get him to trust us, to get him to go on television.
I do. I deliver him. He sits. He talks.
He violates his own fucking confidentiality agreement.
And he's only the key witness in the biggest public health reform issue,
maybe the biggest, most expensive...
corporate malfeasance case in U.S. history.
And Jeffrey Wigand, who's out on a limb,
does he go on television and tell the truth?
Yes. Is it newsworthy?
Yes. Are we gonna air it?
Of course not. Why?
Because he's not telling the truth? No.
Because he is telling the truth. That's why we're not gonna air it.
And the more truth he tells, the worse it gets.
You are a fanatic, an anarchist. You know that?
If we can't have a whole show, then I want half a show rather than no show.
But, oh, no. Not you. You won't be satisfied unless you're putting the company at risk!
What are you? Are you a businessman or are you a newsman?
Because that happens to be what Mike and l...
and some other people around here do for a living.
- Lowell-- - Put the corporation at risk? Give me a fucking break!
These people are putting our whole reason...
- for doing what we do on the line! - Lowell!
What?
I'm with Don on this.
What's wrong?
They're killing the Wigand interview.
- What? - They're pretending it's process. That's bullshit. It's foregone.
What are you and Mike gonna do?
I'm alone on this.
- Oh, baby. - Yeah.
It's Jeffrey Wigand.
Jeffrey. How are you?
How's the family? Okay?
- There is-- There is no family. - What do you mean, "there is no family"?
Uh, Liane has filed for divorce.
And, so, I've moved out.
I see the girls a couple of days a week.
- Where are you staying now? - Our favorite hotel, honey.
I checked into room 930.
Odd choice, huh?
I don't know how to say this,
Jeff, except to just say it right out.
So, uh, I'll say it. They do not want to air it.
- What? - B & W may have threatened litigation.
CBS is on the block.
- But you, I mean-- I know how you-- - No.
No, what?
I do not think that you know for me what it is to walk in my shoes.
For my kids to have seen it,
for them to know why I've put them through what I did.
The public airing of that, the testament to why I did what I did.
You're telling me it's not gonna see the light of day?
Jeff.
Mrs. Wigand?
It hasn't been Mrs. Wigand for some time.
I'm an investigator, and I was wondering if l could ask you a couple of questions about that.
All right.
Um, seven months after we were married,
we found out that I had multiple sclerosis.
And you had a daughter, Diane--
Tommy Sandefur told me himself.
He's not going to allow Brown & Williamson to be demonized to the American public.
So I told Peter Jennings. And l-- Hold on.
You had multiple sclerosis. You had a small child to raise.
Uh, mention that part in the executive summary and in the chapters.
First wife and estrangement of daughter.
So I was telling Pete, I said, "You've been taken in by this guy."
The divorce was something that we both wanted.
He's a shoplifter.
He's a convicted shoplifter.
So, um, what are you gonna do?
What do you think I'm gonna do? Quit in protest?
I'm not gonna do that.
You're taking "no" for an answer?
No, I'm not gonna take "no" for an answer. No.
You're not? What are you doing?
I'm staying right here, doing my job. Fighting to get my show on the air.
You don't like it? Hey, I tell you what?
Fire my ass.
End up in a high-profile lawsuit with Lowell, the First Amendment martyr?
I don't think so. Take a look at this.
This is a summary of a dossier that's being prepared.
He wouldn't lie about his whole life.
Who's gonna believe him about anything he says?
The Wall Street Journal is doing a major story, and, I think, the Post.
You backed the wrong horse.
The version without the interview is gonna air the week after next.
What was that about?
- Get me Wigand. - Sure.
What the fuck is this? Fuck!
You never told me you were married before.
- That you had a daughter. - How is that any of your business?
That is not something that you people need to know.
Oh, you know what we do or do not need to know?
- Since when have you become a media expert? - What do you wanna do, Lowell?
- Look up my ass too? - Oh, for God's sake.
- You're not even on this anymore. What do you care? - Jeff, wake the fuck up!
Everybody is on the line here. If they catch you in a lie,
they can paint everything with that brush, you understand?
- Everything you say. - I told the truth.
Everything you say. And I can't defend you, man,
with one hand tied behind my back...
because you keep from me what they can discover.
And they will discover everything. Believe me.
I was young! I was young!
Confused. We didn't handle it the right way.
- She sued you for back payments of child support? - She did not sue me.
We had a dispute over money. I settled it. She dropped the complaint.
- Any other questions? - Yes. Did you lie...
about being on the American judo team in the Olympics?
- What? - Some public relations guy...
got hold of a tape of an interview where you're saying...
you were on the American judo team in the Olympics.
What kind of shit is this? l-- I was--
I was not on the team. I sparred with the Olympic team.
- Okay? - All right. ABC Telemarketing Company?
- ABC-- - ABC Telemarketing Company.
The can opener! A 39.95 can opener!
I cancelled payment. It was junk!
You ever bounce a check, Lowell? You ever look at another woman's tits?
You ever cheat a little on your taxes?
Whose life, if you look at it under a microscope, doesn't have any flaws?
Well, that's the whole point, Jeffrey. That's the whole point.
Anyone's, everyone's. They are gonna look under every rock,
dig up every flaw, every mistake you've ever made.
They are going to distort and exaggerate everything you've ever done, man.
- Don't you understand? - What does this have to do with my testimony?
- That's not the point-- - What does it have to do with my testimony?
- I told the truth! It's true and provable! - It's not about--
That's not the fucking point, whether you told the truth or not!
Hello?
I told the truth.
I gotta teach class. I gotta go.
- I gotta teach class. - And I gotta refute every fucking accusation made...
in this report before the WalI Street Journal runs.
I am trying to protect you, man.
I hope you improve your batting average.
They're cutting the interestrate, and l have that great feature--
- Hello? - It's Lowell.
Are you guys planning to do a piece on a former top executive in Big Tobacco?
- You caught me in a news meeting. - Are you, are you not, Charlie?
You bet we are, and I can't talk to you now.
- We gotta hook up. - Sure. Where?
- P.J.'s. - I'll be there.
Yeah, I got it. Five hundred pages of it.
They looked in every corner of this guy's life, from the spousal abuse charge,
to shoplifting, to a traffic ticket he got once for running a red light.
It's Terry Lenzner's outfit, l.G.I. Jack, listen to me.
Their strategy: discredit this guy, ruin his reputation in the WalI Street Journal...
and then nobody will ever listen to what he's got to say about tobacco.
He's dead unless I can get this thing knocked down.
Make it even a little more attractive.
I don't know if you're ever gonna get paid.
- Is there any truth to any of it? - That's a good question.
ls there any truth to any of it? I doubt it.
- What's the deadline? - Soon.
- Fax me the summary. - That's great, Jack.
- Hey. - Hey - How are you? Hey, listen.
I hear you guys are sitting on something sensational over there.
- Really? Hi, June. - Oh, hi, baby.
- Catch you later. - Okay. Take care.
- When's your deadline? - Monday.
- Push it. - What? Forget it.
It's a smear campaign, Charlie.
- It's drawn from a selectively circulated-- - Oh, yeah.
Real selective. About as hard to get a hold of as the Manhattan phone book.
Well, it's authoritive... and overwhelmingly documented.
And it's bullshit. And if I'm right, are you gonna put...
the Journal's reputation behind a story that's gonna blow up in your face?
I'll take a look at what you got but I'm not moving any deadlines because you say so.
Are you all right?
Yeah.
Officer Muravchick?
Thank you.
Officer Muravchick, how are you?
- I'm Sandra Sutherland. - How do you do?
Fine, thank you. I'm doing a background check.
Mind if l sit down?
Your Honor, could I have a word with you?
You presided in a dispute over support payments.
Jeffrey Wigand? Yeah, I cited him.
CBS is under criticism because the CBS News program, 60 Minutes,
will not be presenting an interview--
What the hell are you doing?
What does it look like I'm doing? I'm editing.
No, no, no that. I'm talking about the Associated Press.
They got the story that we pulled this interview, and they talked to Mike and l.
Did you tell them that we were lying?
No! I should have.
I told them I disagreed with you, Mike and Kluster...
that this segment is as good as the original.
I'm not lying for you. I'm not gonna shut up for you.
- Not on any of it. - Hey, I'm not gonna fire you.
Okay? Take a vacation. Now!
Lowell? Look, I've decided to preface Sunday's show.
I did three minutes on the Ewening News. You'll want to see it.
- Where are you going? - I've been banished...
in lieu of being fired.
I took off on Tisch. I took off on Corporate.
They'll know they're not, uh, going to see everything on Sunday night.
I don't know. How does that get Wigand on the air?
Do me a favor, will you? Spare me.
For God's sake, get in the real world. What do you think?
I'm going to resign in protest to force it on the air?
The answer's no. I don't plan to spend the end of my days...
wandering in the wilderness of National Public Radio.
That decision I've already made.
This Sunday, Wallace will broadcast a report...
on the tobacco industry, including the tough tactics tobacco companies employ...
to keep a lid on information that might be damaging.
Is there information that people should have...
that they're not going to have because you're not going to broadcast this interview?
- Yes. - Today, CBS News president Eric Kluster...
defended the network's decision not to broadcast...
key portions of the controversial interview.
Mr. Kluster said, quote, "The atmosphere is tougher than ever. "
- Where's the rest? - Dan.
Where the hell's the rest?
- Nebraska football fans voiced their criticism-- - You cut it!
Coming up in Bernard Goldberg's America.
- You cut the guts out of what I said! - It was a time consideration--
Time? Bullshit! You corporate lackey.
Who told you your incompetent little fingers have the requisite skills to edit me?
I'm trying to Band-Aid a situation here, and you're too dim--
Mike. Mike. Mike.
Mike? Mike!
Try "Mr. Wallace."
We work in the same corporation. Doesn't mean we work in the same profession.
Now, now what are you going to do now? You going to finesse me?
Lawyer me some more? I've been in this profession 50 fucking years!
You and the people you work for are destroying the most respected,
the highest rated, the most profitable show on this network.
Here. These are their leads, their sources.
- I want you to have your reporters-- - Suein Hwang and Milo Geyelin.
Have them make their own calls.
They'll find that these sources have a different story than the one that's in the dossier.
Push the deadline, Charlie.
I'll push it for a week. I want Milo and Suein to go through it.
What do you want to buy him for a gift?
Mmm, he's into kind of little cars that, um--
- That remote control thing? - Yeah.
All right. We'll go do that tomorrow.
The 63-36 vote was three shy of the two-thirds needed to pass--
- Mom. - Yes, baby? - There's Dad.
- On the TV. - ...dating back to 1986.
The most recent trouble for Wigand occurred here--
And in local news, WLKO, Louisville,
has gained access to a 500-page dossier...
on former Brown & Williamson research head, Jeffrey Wigand,
detailing charges of shoplifting and failing to pay child support.
Wigand is currently teaching chemistry and Japanese...
at the DuPont ManuaI High School.
Maria.
Thousands of documents from inside the tobacco industry...
have surfaced over the past year.
Documents that appear to confirm...
what a former U.S. surgeon general...
and the current head of the Food and Drug Administration have been saying.
We learned of a tobacco insider who could tell us...
whether or not the tobacco industry has been leveling with the public.
That insider was formerly...
a highly-placed executive with a tobacco company.
But we cannot broadcast what critical information about tobacco,
addiction and public health he might be able to offer.
Why? Because he had to sign a confidentiality agreement...
with the tobacco company he worked for.
The management of CBS has told us...
that knowing he had that agreement...
if we were to broadcast an interview with him,
CBS could be faced with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit.
The fact is, we are not allowed ewen to mention his name...
or the name of the company he worked for.
And, of course, we cannot show you his face.
And your confidentiality agreement with--
- Is still in force? - Yes, it is.
So what are they gonna do? Sue you for making this appearance?
I would bet on it.
The former executive has reason to bet on being sued,
for major cigarette manufacturers--
Yeah.
You disappeared on me.
- How long you staying? - I disappeared on you?
All right. What did you think?
I think it was a disgrace.
- Sir, there's still no answer in that room. room. - Get me the manager's office.
David. David, you've got a call on line four.
I think you better take it.
This is David McDougal. How can I help you?
Mr. McDougal, my name is Lowell Bergman. I'm a producer for 60 Minutes.
I'm concerned for a friend of mine who's staying at your hotel right now.
Mr. Wigand?
I-l think I need to call the police. He won't respond.
No, no, don't call the police. Just tell him I'm on the phone with you.
My name is Lowell Bergman. Just tell him that.
Mr. Wigand, Mr. Bergman is on the telephone.
Did he hear you?
You're breaking up. I can't hear you.
What about now?
- What? - Hello? Can you hear me now?
- What's happening? - He doesn't seem to be listening.
All right. Now listen to me. I want you-- I want you to tell him...
in these words: Get on the fucking phone.
I-l can't say that.
No, you can. Tell him to get on the fucking phone!
He told me to tell you to get on the... fucking phone!
You manipulated me into this.
- That's bullshit, Jeff. - You greased the rails.
I greased the rails for a guy who wanted to say "yes." I helped him to say "yes."
That's all. You're not a robot, Jeff.
- All right? You got a mind of your own, don't you? - " Up to you, Jeffrey.
That's the power you have, Jeffrey.
Vital inside information the American public need to know."
Lowell Bergman-- the hotshot who never met a source he couldn't turn around.
I fought for you, and I still fight for you!
You fought for me? You manipulated me...
into where I am now-- staring at the Brown & Williamson building!
It's all dark except the tenth floor. That's the legal department.
That's where they fuck with my life.
Jeffrey, where you going with this?
So, where you going?
You are... important...
to a lot of people, Jeffrey.
You think about that.
You think about them.
I'm running out of heroes, man.
Guys like you are in short supply.
Yeah, guys like you too.
Where are you, anyway?
I'm on a leave of absence. Forced vacation.
- You try and have a good time. - Yeah.
Yeah, I will.
I'm Lowell Bergman. I'm from 60 Minutes. You know, you take the 60 Minutes...
out of that sentence, nobody returns your phone calls.
Maybe Wigand's right. Maybe I'm hooked.
What am I hooked on?
The rush of 60 Minutes?
What the hell for? "lnfotainment"!
It's so fucking useless, all of it.
So it's a big country with a free press. You can go and work somewhere else.
Free press? The press is free.
For anyone who owns one. Larry Tisch has a free press.
- Get some perspective, Lowell. - I got perspective.
No, you do not.
From my perspective,
what's been going on and what I've been doing is ridiculous.
- It's half-measures. - You're not listening.
Really know what you're going to do before you do it.
I've got Richard Scruggs on the phone.
Patch him through.
Well, Lowell, you are not gonna believe this.
The governor of Mississippi is suing his own attorney general...
to abandon litigation against Big Tobacco.
- Oh, good. - But now that the version without Jeff ran,
what's the chance of getting his interview on the air?
- Hello? - Yeah, I'm here.
What chance is there of getting Jeffs interview on the air?
Less than great.
I'd be lying to you if l did not tell you...
how important it was in the court of public opinion.
I'd be lying to you if l didn't tell you...
I'm about out of moves, Dick.
All right. See ya.
Hi.
So, what are you folks doing... here in Lincoln?
- Geology survey. - Geology?
Yeah? Really?
How about you?
I work for CBS News.
Oh, yeah?
Just ran into two of your geologists.
Geologists whose hands aren't all chewed up.
Lowell, do not... screw this up.
We are a week away from an arrest.
- So I'll hold it. And? - We'll give you a heads-up before we launch.
- How long? - Three hours.
You got a deal.
...like the testimony before Congress of Dr. Wigand's former boss,
Brown & Williamson's chief executive officer, Thomas Sandefur.
I believe that nicotine is not addictive.
I believe Mr. Sandefur perjured himself...
- because I watched those testimonies very carefully. - All of us did.
There was this whole line of people,
whole line of C.E.O.'s up there all swearing.
Part of the reason I'm here is that I felt...
that their representation--
...can be more rapidly absorbed in the lung...
and therefore affect the brain and central nervous system.
- Hello? - Jim, it's Lowell.
- Hey, where are you? - Remember that night at P.J.'s?
You asked me if we were sitting on something explosive. Well, we're not sitting on it.
CBS Corporate leaned on CBS News, which yanked an interview we did...
with a top-ranking tobacco scientist, corporate officer.
They're trying to close down the story.
You mean, 60 Minutes is letting CBS Corporate...
decide what is or is not news?
What's Wallace think about this? Or Hewitt, or--
How prominent? What kind of placement?
Oh, come on, Lowell. This is The New York Times. I don't know.
Well, until you do, all I can tell you is what you already know.
They will not air an interview.
Call me back in ten.
- Hello? - Debbie, it's me.
Hi. What time is it?
- Oh, it's late. - That I know. When are you coming back?
I can't get out of here till mid-morning. I'll be in tomorrow night.
Listen, could you call a number for me? It's in Mississippi.
Okay. Hold on a second.
What is it?
- Hello? - It's Lowell.
All right, Lowell. Page one. Editorial's interested. Let's talk.
Here's how it works. You ask me questions. I tell you if you're wrong.
- Lowell, you sure you want to do this? - Why?
Hey, it doesn't work, you've burned your bridges, man.
You ready?
Okay. About this whistle-blower,
did Mike and Don go along with the corporate decision?
- Lowell? - Did I tell you you were wrong?
No. Um, I'm assuming the cave-in begins...
with the threat of litigation from Big Tobacco.
Are we talking, uh--
Are we talking Brown & Williamson here?
Did I get you up?
No, I usually sit around my hotel room dressed like this at 5:30 in the morning,
sleepy look on my face.
How many shows have we done? Huh?
- Come on. How many? - Oh, lots.
That's right.
But in all that time, Mike,
did you ever get off a plane, walk into a room...
and find that a source for a story changed his mind?
Lost his heart? Walked out on us?
Not one fucking time. You wanna know why?
I see a rhetorical question on the horizon.
I'm gonna tell you why.
Because when I tell someone I'm gonna do something, I deliver.
Oh, how fortunate I am to have Lowell Bergman's moral tutelage...
- to point me down the shining path, to show me the way. - Oh, please, Mike.
- Give me a break. - You give me a break.
I never left a source hung out to dry ever.
Abandoned. Not 'til right fucking now!
When I came on this job, I came with my word intact.
I'm gonna leave with my word intact. Fuck the rules of the game!
Hell, you're supposed to know me, Mike.
What the hell did you expect?
You expect me to lie down?
Back off? Or get over it?
In the real world, when you get to where I am, there are other considerations.
Like what? Corporate responsibility?
- What, are we talking celebrity here? - I'm not--
I'm not talking about celebrity, vanity, CBS. I'm--
I'm-- I'm talking about...
when you're nearer the end of your life than the beginning.
And what do you think you think about then? The future?
ln the future, I'm gonna do this, become that?
What future? No.
What you think is...
How will I be regarded in the end...
after I'm gone?"
Oh, along the way, I suppose I made some minor impact.
I did lran-gate and the Ayatollah, Malcolm X,
Martin Luther King, Saddam, Sadat, etc., etc.
I showed them thieves in suits. I spent a lifetime building...
all that.
But history only remembers most what you did last.
And should that be fronting a segment...
that allowed a tobacco giant to crash this network--
Does it give someone...
at my time of life pause?
Yeah.
Mike,
in my--
You and I have been doing this...
together for 14 years.
This is today's New York Times.
In it is the whole sordid story...
of what went on inside our shop.
And in the editorial, it accuses us...
of betraying the legacy of Edward R. Murrow.
They conclude most of it seems pretty unsubstantiated.
You're full of shit, John.
Yeah.
Front page. There's a picture of Wigand.
Article's entitled, "Getting Personal."
Byline to Suein Hwang and Milo Geyelin.
Wait. Hold on a second, Lowell.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'll see if l can find him.
Yeah, hold on. Don's looking for you.
- Good. - The subheading is "Brown & Williamson...
has a 500-page dossier attacking chief critic."
It quotes Richard Scruggs calling it the worst kind...
of an organized smear campaign against a whistle-blower.
A close look at the file and independent research by this newspaper...
into its key claim indicates that many of the serious allegations...
against Mr. Wigand are backed by scant or contradictory evidence."
This news division has been wilified...
in The New York Times, in print, on television...
for caving to corporate interests!
The New York Times ran a blow-by-blow of what we talked about behind closed doors.
- You fucked us! - No! You fucked you!
Don't invert stuff.
Big Tobacco tried to smear Wigand. You bought it.
The WalI Street Journal-- here-- not exactly...
a bastion of anti-capitalist sentiment,
refutes Big Tobacco's smear campaign...
as the lowest form of character assassination.
And now, even now, when every word...
of what Wigand has said on our show is printed,
the entire deposition of his testimony in a court of law...
in the state of Mississippi, the cat...
totally out of the bag,
you're still standing here debating.
Don, what the hell else do you need?
Mike, you tell him.
You fucked up, Don.
It's old news. Stick with me, like always. We'll be okay.
These things have a half-life of 15 minutes.
No, that's fame. Fame has a 15-minute half-life.
Infamy lasts a little longer.
We caved. It's foolish. It's simply dead wrong.
Now this is what we're going to do. We're going over to Black Rock--
Okay? So let's get back to work. Now what we saw there...
was two potassium chlorate...
would yield two potassium chloride, also a solid--
They cancelled the 6:00. I don't know why. I--
I'm on the 8:10. I should be home... 9:30.
I'll see you then. I love you. Bye.
- Oh. Thanks, Dad. - Thanks.
CBS management wouldn't let us broadcast...
our original story and our interview with Jeffrey Wigand...
because they were worried about the possibility...
of a multi-billion dollar lawsuit against us...
for tortious interference.
But now things have changed.
What Dr. Wigand told us was that his former--
This industry, in my opinion, is an industry...
that has perpetrated the biggest fraud on the American public in history.
They've killed millions and millions of--
You wish you hadn't blown the whistle?
Yeah, there are times I wish I hadn't done it.
There are times I feel com-- compelled to do it.
If you ask me...
would I do it again, do I think it's worth it?
Yeah, I think it's worth it.
I promised you a three-hour heads up. Here it is.
Have a camera crew standing by in Helena, Montana on Tuesday,
and I'll give you a three-hour head start.
All right? By the way, that was a hell of a good show tonight.
- Thank you, Bill. - Yeah.
You won.
Yeah.
What did I win?
Reporting from CBS News world head quarters in New York, good afternoon.
There has been a major breakin the case of the so-called Unabomber.
CBS News has learned that are mote homesite...
outside of Lincoln, Montana...
has been under F.B.I. surveillance for several weeks.
Great, Lowell.
Thanks for this.
You know, we beat everybody. ABC, NBC, CNN.
Mike.
That Canada story...
still interest you?
Everything interests me.
Uh, I quit, Mike.
Bullshit.
Come on.
It all worked out.
You came out okay in the end.
I did?
What do I tell a source on the next tough story?
Hang in with us. You'll be fine. Maybe.
No.
What got broken here...
doesn't go back together again.
So, uh--